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楼主: Lion2013

这种声音是有级磁削吗?

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-11-30 09:55:09 | 显示全部楼层
CRS 发表于 2017-11-28 19:23
不能是吧
现在地铁一大堆VVVF车就这个声音啊

刚才听了ES64U2,这是我听过最特别的声音了
发表于 2017-11-30 12:30:09 | 显示全部楼层
Lion2013 发表于 2017-11-29 22:14
另外,有没有想问一下,发电机是什么鬼?

电车上能出现发电机,我的猜测可能是交直流转换的吧,但是交 ...

对,提供三相380电源的——至于美国是啥制式,本人不知
至于您提到的逆变器,正是我前面提到的SIV
发表于 2017-11-30 12:31:21 | 显示全部楼层
SIV应该没啥声音,所以中文名称叫“静止逆变器”,也就是机车里的辅逆变
至少不会有很大的嗡嗡声,还特么带“调音”的
发表于 2017-11-30 12:33:48 | 显示全部楼层
CRS 发表于 2017-11-29 22:54
我觉得吧,直流车那会儿要是有逆变器干嘛不把主电路改成VVVF的

的确有直流车改SIV的,北京地铁直流车后期就改造SIV了,然后没两年就赶上闹运强制报废了
但也仅限于此了,改VVVF的话,你算算,变流系统全换,牵引电机全换,再加一套微机系统,这多少钱出去了

发表于 2017-11-30 12:36:24 | 显示全部楼层
Lion2013 发表于 2017-11-30 08:23
您说的这车,大修过是肯定的,但我感觉,国外似乎轻易不会大改
如果把工业品看做是有生命的物品的话,彻 ...

对,我忘了这是美国了
美国也是极端功利主义的国家
所以我第一讨厌的是中国,第二就是美国
我猜在欧洲(日本),这种改造应该是比较谨慎的
但即便是美国,还是得看成本的

发表于 2017-11-30 12:38:35 | 显示全部楼层
Lion2013 发表于 2017-11-30 09:52
那就不知道他们怎么考虑的了。

不过有时间我还真得研究一下BART列车的系统。包括供电、牵引等。

我也希望您能搞清楚这个车到底是什么技术路线
这个其实不难吧,维基百科就应该有
比如搜一下北京地铁1号线,我记得里面就有车辆介绍
如果有直改交这么大的事儿,没道理不提一嘴的

发表于 2017-11-30 12:40:53 | 显示全部楼层
至于自动驾驶,倒是说明不了什么,北京地铁最早试验ATO就是在DK3上(最老的车型
 楼主| 发表于 2017-11-30 14:37:46 | 显示全部楼层
铁道游击队长 发表于 2017-11-30 12:36
对,我忘了这是美国了
美国也是极端功利主义的国家
所以我第一讨厌的是中国,第二就是美国

美国那么喜欢玩Rebuilt,我猜测很大的原因就是成本。

美铁以外的其他公司,联合太平洋、伯灵顿北方圣太菲、CSX、诺福克南方、KCS等等还有其他二级铁路,都是私营,当然要讲究成本,怎么省钱怎么来。

美铁虽然是国企,但是美国可不是中国,否则还能落到F40PH退役掏空机械间改行李车的事吗?

节约成本的另一个做法,就是买旧车,然后返厂大修或改装。这个事诺福克南方铁路没少干。其中一个,当年EMD出SD90MAC-H 6000马力机车,联合太平洋买了300多台,后来因为四冲程265H柴油机可靠性不好,返厂换4300马力的710柴油机,获得SD9043MAC这么个不太正式的称号。2014年诺福克买下了其中100台这款车,然后反给EMD继续改装,换了驾驶室,电路也改了,最后新型号叫SD70ACu。

刚才看维基,诺福克可以说是各种淘二手然后各种改装翻新。新车也买,但是我感觉他家可能是倒腾二手车最在行的铁路公司

维基百科词条Norfolk Southern Railway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No ... Railway#Locomotives

Locomotives

A large majority of Norfolk Southern's locomotives come from the companies many predecessors, which include but are not limited to Norfolk and Western, Southern Railway, and Conrail. Of the engines from Norfolk and Western (NW) and Southern, many were equipped with high short hoods. Although these locomotives are aging, a significant number of 'high hoods' still remain on the roster as of January 2017. Norfolk Southern is in the process of getting rid of them by scrapping, rebuilding, or selling the many units on the roster and units that are stored.

Historically, NS has only purchased DC traction diesel locomotives, and was one of the last North American AC-traction hold-outs aside from Canadian National Railway. In September 2008, however, NS placed its first order for new AC traction locomotives: 23 GE ES44ACs, numbered 8000-8023. In the years since, NS has purchased several more ES44ACs as well as over 150 EMD SD70ACes.

Beginning in 2012, Norfolk Southern began to take delivery of several types of older EMD locomotives from various railroads and leasing companies,2012年起,他们就开始从各家买二手车 including 9 ex-BNSF "tri-clops" SD60Ms, 6 ex-ATSF (BNSF) SD75Ms, the remaining 12 ex-Conrail SD80MACs owned by CSX, a majority of Union Pacific's SD9043MACs(就是前面说的那100台), and more that 130 SD40-2s from First Union Rail, CIT Group, and Helm Leasing.

Norfolk Southern is the only railroad ever to own SD80MACs and SD90MACs simultaneously. Norfolk Southern owns all of the SD80MACs and 100 of the SD90MACs from Union Pacific. Norfolk Southern also acquired 10 SD90MACs from CIT Group in exchange for 15 MP15DCs. The SD90MACs are currently being rebuilt into SD70ACus. The SD80MACs will eventually enter a similar rebuild program and retain their 20-710G3B engine.

Norfolk Southern has a very large program for re-cabbing locomotives换驾驶室. NS has its own designed "Admiral Cab,"还是自己设计的驾驶室 which they use on their 'standard cab' rebuilds. NS has rebuilt GP38-2s, SD40-2s, ECO units, and many more with the Admiral Cab.
A former Southern Railway SD40-2 with a new Admiral Cab (on the left), being passed by another NS train.

In 2015, Norfolk Southern began a program to convert aging and unreliable GE Dash 8-40Cs into Dash 8.5-40CW units (NS calls them (D8.5-40CW).DASH8系旧车可靠性下降,想升级改装延寿 The few units that were upgraded included new cabs, rebuilt and modified engine, electrical upgrades and more.换驾驶室、换发动机、换电路等 In 2016, the program was deemed unsuccessful, and ET44AC units were ordered to replace the un-rebuildable 8-40Cs.有些车实在没救了,只好买新车取代

In 2016, NS bought 46 GE ET44AC Locomotives, also known as Tier 4 Locomotives, numbered 3600-3646. 46台ET44AC新车These are the first Tier 4 road engines purchased, and not immediately stored, by NS. They were purchased as the replacement for the Dash 8-40C units, many of which are retired and/or scrapped. Norfolk Southern has an order for 34 more units, due for delivery in 2017. The first order was the first order of new locomotives from NS since late 2014, when EPA Tier 4 requirements were put in place.

In 2016, Norfolk Southern began a rebuild program on the Dash 9-40C units又回头折腾Dash-9系. The rebuild involved overhaul of the engine翻修柴油机, emissions upgrades排放升级, a new cab新驾驶室 (featuring GE Trip Optimizer行车优化?, PTC安全功能, and NS Cab Signals诺福克自家的驾驶室信号机 / Locomotive Speed Limiter机车限速器), new electronics电路, DPU 分散式动力单元,就是由本务遥控的,位于列车中部或尾部的机车and ECP貌似是电空制动? capabilities, increased weight增加重量, and an electric parking brake电动驻车刹. Norfolk Southern plans on rebuilding all of the Dash 9-40Cs and some of the Dash 9-40CWs. The new locomotives are being classified as GE AC44C6M.


发表于 2017-11-30 20:15:20 | 显示全部楼层
Lion2013 发表于 2017-11-30 09:52
那就不知道他们怎么考虑的了。

不过有时间我还真得研究一下BART列车的系统。包括供电、牵引等。

北京有几条线也支持自动了吧,就是没宣传
驾驶员坐那儿按个ATO启动,车自己跑自己停
发表于 2017-11-30 20:17:39 | 显示全部楼层
铁道游击队长 发表于 2017-11-30 12:33
的确有直流车改SIV的,北京地铁直流车后期就改造SIV了,然后没两年就赶上闹运强制报废了
但也仅限于此了 ...

但是功率和运用方式也是一个限制条件吧
8K上辅逆变那会儿不也造不出来交流车
发表于 2017-12-1 13:51:02 | 显示全部楼层
CRS 发表于 2017-11-30 20:15
北京有几条线也支持自动了吧,就是没宣传
驾驶员坐那儿按个ATO启动,车自己跑自己停

因为确实没啥可宣传的
现在北京地铁除了八通和13,都可以ATO
5号线比较半残,貌似不能用

发表于 2017-12-1 13:51:47 | 显示全部楼层
CRS 发表于 2017-11-30 20:17
但是功率和运用方式也是一个限制条件吧
8K上辅逆变那会儿不也造不出来交流车

那是肯定的
不过我说的北京地铁改SIV那个大概06到07年的事儿

发表于 2017-12-1 13:59:19 | 显示全部楼层
本来是为了改造老车“喜迎奥运”的
然后来了个何方傻缺觉得还是VVVF更有喜感,于是直流车一律报废
殊不知中国人这种暴发户心态是最受老外鄙视的
这些人永远不会理解有历史才会真的有范儿,老斑鸠同志说得好,一个善于自我阉割的民族
当然,对于乘客来说,谁特么懂交流还是直流,虽然北京地铁的直流车,乘坐体验是差一点,可那又怎样?
中国地铁(内地)用过直流车的就是京津沪
然只有北京地铁有大量凸轮车
津沪二地都选择了斩波调压,那车坐起来跟VVVF应该没啥区别了
当然天津地铁一期总量就那么几列,除了早期北京支援过去的DK2,应该都是斩波调压
发表于 2018-6-20 22:39:02 | 显示全部楼层
应该是发电机励磁系统和车速有相关,发电机的励磁实际控制的是发电机输出电压,车辆起步时电机转速低,反电势低,所以电压不能很高,随着车速上升,反电势逐步提高,电流开始下降,当电流下降到一定速度值后就提高发电机励磁升高电压再次拉开电压与反电势差值以产生电流,整个提速过程就是如此几次的电压阶跃,这样设计的好处就是司机可以不管当前车速直接提手柄到最大值,电流由发电机励磁根据车速来控制,而所谓的传统机车如果没有这种设计,除非有另外的限流措施,否则司机就不能直接提手柄到最高级。
发表于 2018-7-4 22:24:11 | 显示全部楼层
我觉得单说英国CLASS47那个,会不会可能是世界电传动机车技术发展最早期的有级或者无级调压+牵引电机串并联调速方式
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