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武广客运专线

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发表于 2006-5-19 17:15:16 | |阅读模式
现在全国客运专线进行的红红火火,什么四横四纵客运网,四大检修基地,各个报道是众说纷纭,武广客运专线也在火热进行,什么武汉动车检修基地,广州检修基地,他们两个都是检修这段专线的么,还是各有分工,看网上有说今年10月份,武汉有段路线要运行,广州动检基地也将于2007年完工,这些消息可靠么,大家对武广这条客运专线和广州动车检修基地有何看法?高手和知道内情的朋友请跟帖阿!!!
发表于 2006-5-19 19:01:17 |
武广专线是目前投资最大、技术最高、工艺最复杂、里程最长的客运专线,将是中国铁路史上里程碑式的工程,是目前世界上第一条一次建成的上千公里的高速铁路。开通时间初步定于2009年12月,届时武汉至广州直达列车运行时间可压缩到三小时三十分钟。
 楼主| 发表于 2006-5-19 19:57:01 |
oyzw 同志对武广应该是比较了解,据你所知广州动车检修基地将来会发展成如何?
发表于 2006-5-20 02:00:06 |
现在世界上还没有哪条高铁的长度超过1000km,
而中国未来要建成的几条高铁一般里程都在1000km以上,
其中最长的京广客运专线长度超过2200km.
似乎国外还没有动车组在这样的超长距离上运行的范例.
动车组超长距离运行的安全性怎么保证?

另外,我认为1000-2000km距离上,动车组在飞机面前并无多大优势.
发表于 2006-5-20 09:33:50 |
原帖由 Solo1981 于 2006-5-20 02:00 发表
现在世界上还没有哪条高铁的长度超过1000km,
而中国未来要建成的几条高铁一般里程都在1000km以上,
其中最长的京广客运专线长度超过2200km.
似乎国外还没有动车组在这样的超长距离上运行的范例.
动车组超长距 ...

日本在动车长距离耐久运行的经验多,而且实践表明动车组完全可以胜任这样长距离运输
发表于 2006-5-20 10:50:37 |
原帖由 Solo1981 于 2006-5-20 02:00 发表
现在世界上还没有哪条高铁的长度超过1000km,
而中国未来要建成的几条高铁一般里程都在1000km以上,
其中最长的京广客运专线长度超过2200km.
似乎国外还没有动车组在这样的超长距离上运行的范例.
动车组超长距 ...

真的没有优势也可以看成几段么。。。
 楼主| 发表于 2006-5-20 10:58:30 |
武广线用的好象是新干线的技术,听说要配套使用新干线的地基技术,日本人可别人不是一次两次的事了,后期的维修也要很高的费用,在京沪专线的车辆选型时网友给铁道部埋菜的不行了,现在他们改用ICE了,武广没有考虑这个问题么?兼容性听说新干线也不怎么滴,新干线虽然前期投入少,但是毕竟长远来看不合适阿,对这个问题你们怎么看啊?
发表于 2006-5-20 11:15:36 |
原帖由 T5566 于 2006-5-20 10:58 发表
武广线用的好象是新干线的技术,听说要配套使用新干线的地基技术,日本人可别人不是一次两次的事了,后期的维修也要很高的费用,在京沪专线的车辆选型时网友给铁道部埋菜的不行了,现在他们改用ICE了,武广没有考 ...

武广专线武汉至花都段设计咨询是德国欧博迈亚公司与铁四院联合体负责,为武广专线公司管辖,武汉工程试验段是德国海姆公司与中铁八局联合承建,主体工程中铁集团承建,监理单位外方为德国、韩国、法国、荷兰;广州试验段是日本海外铁道社团与中铁四局承建,花都至新广州站50公里具有相对独立性,是铁道部直接管辖,为了引进学习日本技术,特意选择广州一小段作为合作项目,避免了政治风险。可以说在线下土建工程方面是德国、日本两国技术,这还不存在兼容问题。在线上牵引供电、通讯与信号集成方面,主要采用欧洲制式,车辆选型上不管是武广专线公司还是广铁集团都是以新引进的德国300动车为主,日本车辆是作为2004年200公里动车引进的对象,具备提速300的能力,服务于全国各大线路,不属于专门配属武广专线。建设高速铁路必然要引进欧洲与日本的技术,选择武广专线作为示范工程极大地避免了政治风险,今后无论是修建京沪、京哈等线都不会出现像武广如此大规模的技术引进了。
发表于 2006-5-20 12:43:21 |
原帖由 Solo1981 于 2006-5-20 02:00 发表
现在世界上还没有哪条高铁的长度超过1000km,
而中国未来要建成的几条高铁一般里程都在1000km以上,
其中最长的京广客运专线长度超过2200km.
似乎国外还没有动车组在这样的超长距离上运行的范例.
动车组超长距 ...


什么叫超长距离?动车在短距离上多跑几个来回跟超长距离不就是一回事么。欧洲、日本国土面积小,高速线连续里程又不长,当然不可能不停车的跑个2000公里以上,并不是技术上做不到。

未来京津城际铁路单程半小时,虽说里程只有118km,但一趟车一天下来跑18个小时,差不多15个来回,总里程也有3540km了。

时速350的动车跟飞机比有效竞争距离在1500公里以内。不过北京到广州肯定会有10个小时的夕发朝至卧铺车,时速250吧,票价应该跟白天的高速车坐票差不远,也是很有竞争力的。

[ 本帖最后由 openlc 于 2006-5-20 14:09 编辑 ]
发表于 2006-5-20 12:55:39 |
原帖由 oyzw 于 2006-5-20 11:15 发表

武广专线武汉至花都段设计咨询是德国欧博迈亚公司与铁四院联合体负责,为武广专线公司管辖,武汉工程试验段是德国海姆公司与中铁八局联合承建,主体工程中铁集团承建,监理单位外方为德国、韩国、法国、荷兰;广 ...


南车四方厂还会继续引进日本时速300公里以上动车组技术的,北车长客厂也在积极与阿尔斯通合作,未来引进AGV的可能性很大。说实话我对四方厂能将E-2改造为时速300以上的车不抱很大信心,从今年起三年内四方厂也就是干组装、生产些边角部件。至于核心机电系统的设计能力能否在5年内形成还是个很大的疑问,E-2作为时速250的车运行到是现成的。只拜托四方厂能让E-2与欧洲标准的通信和列控系统兼容就不错了。

倒是搞不懂铁道部为啥选择武广最南段50公里运用日本技术,干脆找条比较短的线,比如广深,运用日本技术多好。武广公司居然有一头50公里不能管辖,看来必定是要受铁道部钳制了。
发表于 2006-5-20 13:03:47 |
原帖由 openlc 于 2006-5-20 12:55 发表


南车四方厂还会继续引进日本时速300公里以上动车组技术的,北车长客厂也在积极与阿尔斯通合作,未来引进AGV的可能性很大。说实话我对四方厂能将E-2改造为时速300以上的车不抱很大信心,从今年起三年内四方厂也 ...

真的会引进AGV?法国自己都还没有搞成,会给中国吗?
发表于 2006-5-20 14:13:50 |
原帖由 oyzw 于 2006-5-20 13:03 发表

真的会引进AGV?法国自己都还没有搞成,会给中国吗?


以前在某篇新闻中看到的,阿尔斯通的经理接受采访谈到AGV未来的市场前景时,说中国将是除法国国铁以外的一个最重要目标客户。
发表于 2006-5-20 14:59:03 |
原帖由 openlc 于 2006-5-20 14:13 发表


以前在某篇新闻中看到的,阿尔斯通的经理接受采访谈到AGV未来的市场前景时,说中国将是除法国国铁以外的一个最重要目标客户。
AGV_9_1094517526.jpg
agv_trainset_gr_1094470659.jpg
parisnord06_1094517413.jpg
发表于 2006-5-20 15:03:58 |
看看阿尔斯通的广告先

Technology: Designing the AGV

ALSTOM's George Palais explains what was carried over from the TGV and what is pure innovation in the new AGV range of small (7 cars, 140m), medium (10 cars, 200m) and large carriers (12 cars, 240m).

Building on the TGV's high-speed strengths

In developing the AGV, ALSTOM's new single-deck high speed product, our engineers decided to keep the TGV's articulated trainset architecture because after nearly 20 years of commercial service, this design has proven its multiple advantages:

    *

      Reduction of the number of bogies, synonymous with reduced wheel noise and with energy savings from lowered resistance;


    *

      Absence of passengers over the bogies guaranteeing better dynamic and acoustic comfort;


    *

      Distribution of axles the length of the train, for an even and regular division of effort on the track;


    *

      Proven safety. In an emergency situation, TGVs remain stable: the different cars do not detach.They remain upright and in line along the track.


The AGV design represents important progress over the TGV, however, because the full length of the trainset is open to passengers. Its modularity allows adapted capabilities for each need, 220-420 places according to number of cars and interior arrangement — offering great flexibility to operators. AGVspeed can be increased to up to 350 km per hour with no negative effect on comfort, operating costs, or security, while improving availability.




Why the AGV is faster

Distributed motorization

When the TGV was first developed, technologies available could not accomodate distributed motorization with an articulated trainset. The mass of the equipment would have brought the charge-per-axle to over 17 tons, which was considered the technical-economic limit for circulation at over 300km per hour. So concentrated motorization was adopted, with motor cars placed at the TGV trainset's extremities.
Today, ALSTOM has redesigned traction system components, making them lighter and smaller and thus our engineers can also make significant gains in the design of the carbody shell, rendering it compatible with distributed motorization for the articulated trainset for the AGV.

Hybrid aluminium/steel car body shell


ALSTOM developed aluminum bodyshells for the TGV Duplex. This technique led to the gains in mass necessary to greatly improve the car's capacity without going over the 17-ton-per-axle limit. The AGV takes its inspiration from this experience but uses a hybrid aluminium/steel architecture in order to respect the constraints of passive safety necessary for inter-operability.

Advanced traction equipment

The AGV is dimensioned for starting up in a heavy slope and in a medium, long slope. The modular design of the traction equipment is based on IGBT and on asynchronous motors which permit it to adapt to the different catenary tensions found in Europe and to the needs of electric rheostat braking and to high performance recuperation of energy.

Best bogies: standardized carrier and motor types

The experience acquired with the TGV inspired our engineers to keep the same bogie design for the AGV. However, important progress has been made on the standardization between the carrier bogies and the motor bogies.
发表于 2006-5-20 15:11:42 |
一篇比较老的文章,2000年的,但有很详细的技术数据

AGV: The Next Generation - high speed trains
International Railway Journal,  May, 2000  by David Briginshaw

Alstom in cooperation with French National Railways (SNCF) is developing a new design of TGV called AGV. It will be the first articulated high-speed train with distributed traction rather than power cars at each end. Prototype AGV cars are under construction and should be ready to start testing in March 2001.

THERE are a number of reasons why Alstom is keen to develop the AGV, which stands for Automotrice [acute{a}] Grande Vitesse. It perceives a commercial need to increase the maximum speed of TGV from 300 to 350km/h but with the same operating performance and cost as a 300km/h train. Advances in technology now make this possible. AGY will have 9% more capacity within the same length of train (200m) than a conventional TGV.

AGV will combine the best elements of TGV and things such as eddy current brakes developed for the former TGV New Generation project, and introduce distributed traction. This would enable Alstom to meet the recently-announced aspirations of the president of French National Railways (SNCF) and the chairman of German Rail (DB) to draw up jointly specifications for the next generation of high-speed trains to reduce development and procurement costs (IRJ February p3). Alstom is keen for AGV to be a contender for the new TGV Est Europ[acute{e}]en project (see following article).

Alstom will bid for the contract to supply between 26 and 40 trains to Spanish National Railways (Renfe) for the new Madrid-Barcelona high-speed line (see World Report). "Renfe would like to achieve a 2h 15mm journey time for the 651km Madrid-Barcelona trip to compete effectively with air," Mr Georges Palais, Alstom's high speed product manager, told IRJ in Paris. "We could achieve this with 350km/h operation, with an allowance for recovery time."

The key element from TGV which will be retained in AGV is the articulation and the articulated bogies, as palais explained. "The goal is to conserve the articulation because of its excellent ride characteristics and good safety record." The articulation performed well in two derailments involving TGVs. The trains remained upright and in alignment with track.

Distributed power high-speed trains are not new. The Japanese Shinkansen family of trains has always had distributed power, as has the Italian Pendolino, and now ICE 3, the latest generation of German high-speed train. However, as Palais pointed out, "it has only recently become possible to marry distributed power with articulation while keeping within the 17 tonne axleload restriction, which is the European standard." This is thanks to the advent of new power semi-conductors of the IGBT type. "The potential gains in mass resulting from this type of component now mean that it is possible to design an articulated train capable of operating at speeds in excess of 320km/h," Palais said. AGV will therefore have Alstom's Onix IGBT traction system. However, technology has not advanced enough yet to allow a double-deck AGV.

AGV train configurations will be based on a module of three coaches with two powered bogies (each axle driven by a 600kW asynchronous motor) and a trailer bogie. This makes it possible to produce various formations which each have virtually the same traction and braking performance. Thanks to the variable sizes of traction equipment, it is possible to add non-powered trailer coaches to permit seven, 10, and 14-car trains. There will be only two types of coach: one with a driver's cab and an intermediate coach.

The result is that a 200m-long 10-car AGV will have only 11 bogies compared with 13 on a 10-car TGV R[acute{e}]seau set (two power cars and eight trailers), which should reduce rolling noise. AGV will seat 411 passengers compared with only 377 in a TGV R[acute{e}]seau, so the cost per seat should be less with AGV.

AGV represents a number of technical challenges. As Palais was quick to point out: "It would be unthinkable to increase the operating speed while at the same time reducing the level of dynamic comfort in the trains or imposing additional stresses requiring increased track maintenance. Any increases in speed must be achieved while offering the same level of comfort as that obtained with TGVs running at 300km/h on the same quality of track."

Alstom has therefore developed an active lateral suspension system, which will be fitted to each trailer bogie, to stabilise the coach laterally in relation to the movement of the bogie on the track. An electric actuator will maintain the coach body virtually within the axis of the bogie thereby avoiding contact with the stops. This recentring will make it possible to soften the secondary suspension which should increase comfort during alignment. The electric actuators will be controlled to stabilise low and medium frequency lateral movements of the car body in relation to the bogies. In addition, the level of comfort does not vary according to the position of the coach in the train.

Alstom has fitted active lateral suspension and electric actuators to a TGV R[acute{e}]seau and tested it at 350km/h on the Lille-Calais section of TGV Nord Europe. The dynamic comfort at 350km/h matched that of a non-equipped train at 300km/h. Another set of tests will be conducted next month with a modified design of actuator.

Another key challenge is to brake a train from 350km/h effectively and economically without increasing the braking distance, which would reduce line capacity. Two motor bogies equipped with eddy current brakes were fitted to a TGV and tested by Alstom and SNCF at up to 350km/h. Eddy current brakes are able to produce an emergency braking effort of 20kN per bogie between 350 and 200km/h. Braking power is reduced to 10kN under normal braking conditions. On a line with 3-minute head. ways, these power levels are acceptable both in terms of heating the rails, and the vertical effort generated by the magnetic pull. Endurance tests were conducted in 1998, which proved the system. "We consider that this brake development is now finished," Palais told IRJ. The first and last bogies on a 350km/h AGV will have eddy current brakes.

Eliminating Vibrations

As the traction motors on AGV will be suspended from the bodyshell directly beneath the passenger accommodation, this could lead to increased vibrations. "We have defined a silent block between the traction motor and the bodyshell which will eliminate the vibrations inside the vehicle," Palais explained.

Having a powered articulated bogie makes it difficult to use forced air cooling, so the motors will have a self-cooling system with a fan inside the motor. To solve the problem of dust ingress, a vortex will separate out the large particles.

The end cars on AGV will have the heaviest components, such as the 6.5-tonne transformer, to improve their stability at high speed. "AGV will have a lower centre of gravity on the leading coach than a TGV power car," Palais remarked. The end coaches will have three axles so the 17tonne axleload will not be compromised.

AGV will utilise the same aluminium bodyshell technique developed for TGV Duplex. This will save 2 tonnes compared with a steel TGV bodyshell. The only major steel elements will be the inter-car gangways and the cabs. AGV will have the same crashworthiness as TGV Duplex and will be able to absorb up to 6MJ of energy.

Alstom recognises that operators now expect to refurbish the interiors of their trains more frequently than in the past, for example at five to seven year intervals. Alstom has developed a modular concept for the interior fittings that can be applied to all high-speed trains depending on the length of journey. Passenger areas are divided into zones with common mechanical and electrical interfaces. Zones include:

* toilet and baby changing areas

* information centre and conductor's compartment

* office and conference room

* bar and at-seat meal service, and

* flexible areas so that the seating layout can be changed.

AGV will have a level floor throughout, unlike TGV where the floor rises over the articulated area. AGV will have wide doors to ease passenger flows.

Alstom is currently building two AGV prototype coaches fitted with AGV trailer and motor bogies. One coach will have a driver's cab and the other will be an intermediate car. The two prototypes will be attached to four TGV Reseau coaches and a power car (taken from a set damaged in an accident) to form a test train. "This will enable us to test the dynamic performance of the train, the performance of the pantograph in relation to the articulated bogie, the behaviour of the motor bogie, and test the air cooling of the traction system," Palais explained.

While SNCF and Alstom have now moved on to the development of AGV, testing with the tilting TGV prototype is continuing, and a tilting version of AGV with a maximum speed of 320km/h is envisaged. "French regions such as Brittany and Limousin are interested in the tilting TGV," Palais explained. "This was why a demonstration was organised in these regions last month of the tilting TGV prototype equipped with electrical actuators and our command control system."


                            AGV TECHNICAL DATA
                                    320km/h train     350km/h train
Cars/train                               10                 9
Fully articulated train                  Yes               Yes
Motor bogies/train                        6                 6
Trailer bogies/train                      4                 4
Weight under normal load             363 tonnes        336 tonnes
Maximum axleload                      17 tonnes         17 tonnes
Typical passenger capacity               411               359
Traction equipment                      IGBT              IGBT
Traction motors                     Asynchronous      Asynchronous
Power output                            7.2MW             7.6MW
Starting tractive effort                175kN             160kN
Multi-voltage (25 and 15kV ac
and 3 and 1.5kV dc)                  Possible          Possible
Resistance to forward motion
at maximum speed                      6350daN           7100daN
Friction brakes                      22MJ discs        22MJ discs
Eddy current brakes                      No              20kNx2
Rheostatic electric braking             7.2MW             7.2MW
Electric regenerative braking           7.2MW             7.6MW
Active lateral suspensions            Optional      Electric actuator
Tilting                               Optional             No
Car body                              Aluminum          Aluminium
Gangways, articulation, and cab         Steel             Steel
Crashworthiness energy absorption Driver's cab: 6MJ Driver's cab: 6MJ
                            AGV CONFIGURATIONS
Cars/train Total  First-class Second-class Total
           Length  seats [+]   seats [++]  seats
Six         120m       67         204       271
Seven       140m       67         256       323
Nine
  •     180m      103         256       359
    Ten
  •      200m      103         308       411
    Twelve
  •   240m      103         412       515
    (*.)train includes bar car
    (+.)1049mm seat pitch
    (++.)968mm seat pitch
  • 发表于 2006-5-20 15:12:07 |
    有空我把上边的文章翻译一下
    发表于 2006-5-20 17:10:31 |
    辛苦了~翻译可是件苦差事呀……
    发表于 2006-5-20 17:15:01 |
    对AGV并不看好.
     楼主| 发表于 2006-5-22 12:22:28 |
    AGV感觉还是比较远,倒是没有搞明白庞巴迪的车哪段在用?这几段客专还没有哪个放出话要用庞巴迪的车,而且庞巴迪的车上300kmh的还没有听说在国内造,BSP现在造的也都是160的,200的。
    发表于 2006-5-22 13:38:19 |
    原帖由 T5566 于 2006-5-22 12:22 发表
    AGV感觉还是比较远,倒是没有搞明白庞巴迪的车哪段在用?这几段客专还没有哪个放出话要用庞巴迪的车,而且庞巴迪的车上300kmh的还没有听说在国内造,BSP现在造的也都是160的,200的。


    目前全球高速列车市场增长最快和最有潜力的几个国家都在亚洲,如中国、韩国、印度、东南亚的几个国家,还有俄罗斯等等,其中根据规划的高速铁路网规模看,中国以12000km位居第一位,庞巴迪的zefiro的几个主要特性(如列车通信信号系统、席位安排等)都是根据中国标准定制的,对于中国这么大一个市场,将制造基地放在中国国内也是早晚的事情。

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